After going on tour with Atmosphere in 2007, hip-hop duo Grieives and Budo have finally embarked on their own headlining US tour in promotion of their new record Together/Apart. Together/Apart (Rhymesayers) is their second collaborative effort, and the group has strayed away from conventional hip-hop, taking a more melodic and personal approach to their songwriting. Grieves and Budo spoke with us about the new album, the comedic horrors of the van on tour, what drives them to do what they do — and how they plan to continue changing the hip-hop game.

At what age did you realize you could stop rapping for fun and do it “for real?”
Grieves: It was 2007 he [points to manager, Matt] made me quit my job. He said I need you to focus on this instead of that. I refused to quit my job at this restaurant; my boss wasn’t going to fire me, [and] Matt was like, “Dude, you’re fine, you just need to quit and focus.” After the tour with Atmosphere in 2007 he made me quit. I can be a stubborn motherfucker when it comes down to “security.” So I guess I’m doing that now. [laughter]

I was talking with fans outside and they all wanted to know why you chose to do more singing on the new album. They like it, but they don’t know where it came from.
Grieves: I think I fucked around and figured out that I could do it; then Budo started pushing me in that direction with more melodic production, more space, slower tempos. The approach to this record was more hook-driven, so I started off singing on most of these songs [and] then fell back into rapping.
Budo: You can hear it before Together/Apart: “I Ate Your Soul” and “Heartbreak Hotel,” which is on this record, though that song was written in 2006 [or] 2007. “Bloody Poetry” was a song that existed way before we started working this record. You can hear it in 88 Keys and Counting there was the seed of a great singer.
Grieves: I listen to a lot of music with singing, lots of neo-soul and Motown. It’s very satisfying as an artist to incorporate the kind of things that make me happy.

Does the beat, lyrics, or melody come first?
Grieves: There is no set format. Traditionally I’ll write to the beat, but sometimes I’ll come up with an idea for a song and make up the beat for that idea, write to it, send it to Budo, he’ll change the entire beat, and just keep the acapella.
Budo: Each song on this record has some really specific stories as to how it happened. It’s a testament to the fact that we spent two years making the record, so most of those two years were filled with crazy experiences.
Grieves: Not one song sounds like the way that it did when I first demoed it. When I first recorded them it felt like, “Alright, here’s one” — not a single song on the record sounds like that original. The original demos sound so dumbed down.
Budo: One of my favorite bands is Wilco. There’s a movie about them where they interview Jay Bennett, who’s the guitar player and producer of a record they made, I Am Trying to Break Your Heart. They approach him and ask, “What’s your songwriting process?” and he says, “We write all these songs and record them, and then we walk in and we dissect them and tear them apart, because they’re ours, and they’re ours to destroy.”

It’s not that drastic in terms of what we do. It’s cool to make something [and] get to a point where you’re comfortable enough with your ability to make stuff that you can take apart and put back together — but it’s how you put it back together that makes it more compelling.

What was your favorite song to record on Together/Apart, or possibly the hardest?
Grieves: Well, how about the song that didn’t make the record? We were trying to get a feature for the song forever and everyone was like, “Yeah, I gotcha,” and we record the song, mix the song, spend a whole bunch of time and money, and it’s still waiting for a feature.

Who were you looking to feature?
Grieves: We were looking at our boy Ev, whose actually releasing a record tomorrow.

In other interviews, you spoke of working with Bon Iver and Chester French on the next record.
Grieves: That’s stuff we were listening to towards the end of crafting the record. I would love to work with both those people. But, I don’t know if that’s necessarily what I’m gonna do with this record — but I would like to at least give it a shot. I’d love to work with Ratatat one day. I’ve always looked up to them. I told Budo  I want our song “Lockdown” to sound Ratatat-y

You said in another interview that one day you realized you had to stop writing “little boy rhymes” — how did you consciously see the change and follow through?
Grieves: The writing didn’t affect me. Sometimes I’ll write something and think, Wow, that’s some real shit, you’re actually kind of being an adult right now — and then I’ll write something, like, “Bitches chase my balls like a herd of golden retrievers,” and I’m realize I’m being an asshole. So to me, the music that I write when I think, Hey you’re kind of dealing with something right now — that makes me happy as an artist. That is what I have to do because music is what I do for a living now. I should do it in the vein that makes me happy. That’s when I realized when I was capable of both, and I thought, Man why don’t you just do what makes you happy?

Yes, I do like the knucklehead rap too, but if I made a whole record of knucklehead rap, you wouldn’t be sitting here talking to me. That’s not what I’m best at; that’s not how I communicate with people. It’s not through jokes and stuff like that.

What about dark jokes?
Grieves: Darker jokes — that’s what I’m all about. That’s why I tour with funny people, because outside of the music that I make I don’t take shit seriously. The music that I make is real fuckin’ serious; that’s why I tour with funny people.

Do you two work a lot together or over the internet or physically together?
Budo: We’ve been essentially living in the same city, but there’d be times we would send stuff miles over the internet.
Grieves: Mainly we’re impatient; I don’t really wait for Budo to come over. It’s more like I call him and scream, “Walk back to your house, I’m sending you something right now!”

What do you think sets you apart from other hip-hop? Do you even listen to hip-hop anymore?
Grieves: I don’t as much as I used to. I used to love that shit. I used to say stuff like, “Word, yo.” I have removed myself from that a lot because, I don’t know, maybe it’s just me growing up. The music that I listen to I appreciate a lot more than being concerned with people saying, “Oh yo dude, that one line was sick!” I can’t keep up with rappers anymore, and there’s a new one every week. I’ve never read through any of these rap blogs; I don’t know who “Young T Money” or any of these guys are, and apparently they’re huge. I’m so far behind now there’s no point in catching up. Wu-Tang is still current to me. That’s where I’m at.
Budo: I think our focus now is really on songwriting loosely within the confines of hip-hop. It’s rare to find a hip-hop artist that is writing songs. Hip-hop, god bless its soul, fits a very predictable mold most of the time that to a degree is uninspiring, and I think that what’s cool. That we have this space now where we can take inspiration from all kinds of different places that allows us to create our own thing. It’s important to listen to other things and not get locked in this bubble of what you do. If you do that, then essentially you’re using yourself and everyone around you and it just dies. it’s a process of finding life in stuff outside of hip-hop and I think we both do that naturally.
Grieves: That’s what we’ve always brought to the table; I don’t think Budo comes into the studio and goes, “Is this in the key of D-minor?” There’s no way. We bring new things to the table that probably the fans wouldn’t think about.

If you could work with any artist who would it be?
Grieves: I would love to work with D’Angelo. I would like sit there and just watch him sing; I wouldn’t even need to be in the song — let me put the snare in, let me kick the hi-hats down, that would be amazing to me. Some sort of neo-soul icon. I would love to see that because I love that music and I’ve never been involved in the creation on that on that level before. I just took whatever I felt from it and ran with it in my own direction. It’d be inspiring and I’d probably learn a shit-load.

What is the studio actually like?
Budo: It’s traditionally very focused. Together/Apart took two years to scrape together and it took 11 or 12 days being focused to finish the record in the studio. When we realize we need to get in the studio is when we know experimentation is done. That shit costs money and it’s good that it costs — it makes you pay attention and makes you understand, and as much as you’d want to you can’t sit forever in there.

Have you started to scrape songs together since the release [while] on the road?
Grieves: I’ve been demoing here and there at home — I’m not much of a road writer. There’s so much going on at once, and I like to listen to the music really loud when I’m writing, but I can’t listen to headphones because I need to hear syllables even if I’m not making words. I just need to make noise, and I feel like an idiot in the van when everyone is hearing is “la-la-le-le” — the cadence, but no words are coming out of my mouth. It’s kind of embarrassing; I can’t write the way I want to when I feel I’m being judged.
Budo: The studio is kind of a sacred space, to be melodramatic. It’s a church compared to when you’re in a van with six other dudes, and five of them are telling all the jokes you’ve ever heard in your entire life, and the tour manager is blasting the best hits of 1996.

What’s touring like? Tried to stab each other yet?
Budo: I just haven’t been successful.
Grieves: Yeah, we’ve been doing this too long to be children about it. If we were going to punch each other we would have punched each other already. We’re like old people; we’re done fucking because we’ve been married for too long.

The kids outside also asked what you get out of a show that makes you strive so hard to tour.
Grieves: I get a direct connection with the people that are supporting the stuff that I make. It sounds self-validating, [but] the thing is, if I didn’t have a reason to make this stuff and work so hard, I’d probably sit in my house, make a song once a month, and that’d be it. But I bust my ass to be able to make it to Chicago to play it for 200 or 300 people.

To put a record out is insane. I’m going crazy; I’ve lost all my personal relationships, losing my mind. It is the most validating thing to see all that hard work and the faces of these kids that will wait in the front until you play — not only that, but getting to expose them to music I like. I get to choose the music between sets and I get to bring the artists I want to bring. Even if it’s 75 people, I know that I have 75 people who came to see me in Chicago. You can’t really beat that feeling. It’s like doing drugs, but not as cool.

What advice would you give to a 13-year-old kid waiting for the doors in the cold right now?
Budo: Make sure you love it. Make absolutely sure that this is something you love to do. Because at the end of the day, odds are you’re not going to make it, and “make it” is a very vague thing. When you do “make it” or make it your job, you strive you, and you strive, and you get there and you realize in that process of striving, you swept away a lot of things that you probably want — like a normal life, stability — it went out the window.

So when you finally get that thing you’ve been working for, you better be damn sure you want it, because a lot of other shit disappears in the process. If you don’t love this, and you’re doing it just to be successful or to be in front of people or anything other than your love to make music, then you’re probably fucked and you’re going to be very unhappy.
Grieves: Yeah, don’t do it because I do it or because Kid Cudi does it. Don’t make my music; don’t make Kid Cudi’s music. It’s important to be able to know what you want, know how to do it, create that, and use that as a tool to form a career.

Also, it’s business, learn a little something about business. Work on your communication skills. You’re going to have to talk and convince people, you’re going to hear a lot of things that you don’t want to hear, so maybe learn to put away your ego, or find someone you trust enough to do that for you. After that, just keep hitting it.
Budo: That would be a good end of an interview for a porn star: “just keep hitting it.”

Verbicide Free Download: Click here to download “Bloody Poetry” by Grieves & Budo